as promised… the day after ;-D

The Carbon Tax debate… as promised I’m goingfrom trusty phone ;-( to attempt to share with you how the evening went.  I, like so few others, was prepared to listen to the ideas of the panel, both for and against, however it was evident quite early on, some were there just to heckle and yell. I love my city and for the most part its people but alas rudeness was all some of the audience could offer. Particularly disappointing was the heckling of a ‘well-known’ pastor from a local church whose personal behaviour was quite objectionable for that of a clergyman.

I was delighted to note that the affirmative team of Cllr Stanley, MP Laurie Ferguson and Senator Lee Rhiannon were prepared; they had at hand lots of data, statistics and facts, shared freely and with respect. They were well prepared!  I thought (hoped) given the time and the opportunity that the Opposition would be the same, however without props and one liner’s there was very little to be added to the discussion. Not one piece of real information unless you believe knowing how many words were in the 18 pieces of legislation is an important fact.

Cllr Lucas was quite frankly embarrassing, after calling for this debate and being elected the speaker, one would have thought he would have made more of an effort. Sadly a few locals who had never attended a council meeting before were horrified that he is one of our councillors, in fact, they struggled to believe pretty much anything that he said or did, some actually asking if it was an act. For those of us accustomed to his antics, there was nothing new, he admitted he doesn’t read the minutes to council meetings (no news there) and when not vilifying the affirmative panel, spent  a good deal of his time, sucking up to his colleague the ever blustful Craig Kelly, I really think I felt the room vibrate at one outburst.

Having never heard Russell Matheson speak I was hopeful he would bring some real debate and clear information forth. Alas if you could understand his mumbling, which was excessive, perhaps nerves, perhaps not, nothing of value was offered. I can see no reason for nerves as he was introduced as a former councillor, so one would expect had spoken in public before, which sheds a new light on the level of representation at other councils not only our own.

One of the key points being made by Lee Rhiannon and Laurie Ferguson were that council could begin doing things to make a difference and that not supporting renewable energy initiatives etc would in the long term be detrimental to councils ability to access grants etc.  It’s not like LCC would be the first, Lee was able to list a number of councils who have already made some great moves towards being a better environmental citizen, alas our coalition will have nothing of it, so in about 338 days you will be able to decide if you want a forward thinking and moving council or the same old same old living in the past and not being willing or open to new ideas, technologies and options.

I like Tony Hadchiti (below) agree (I know its rare)that almost no one left with a different view than they arrived with, some felt there weren’t enough facts given however when an attempt to share those facts one could be excused for not hearing them over the heckling. No matter the number of calls to order, some just couldn’t be silenced.

I did have the pleasure of speaking with some people as they came and again when they left to see how they felt the evening had gone, when this video is uploaded and ready I’ll post it here for you to see for yourself… keep watching.

 In the end I’m left wondering why would anyone not support a price on pollution and prefer another personal tax $1300+ (which is what the coalition proposes) and of course why anyone would want to give more subsidies (your tax dollars) to the polluters (which is where the coalition wants their new tax to be directed) when all we really want as humans is to take a little more care of our planet and ask those who stuff up to clean up…


Below is the running ‘twit’ commentary of Cllr Hadchiti, wouldn’t half show he doesn’t like the Greens, good to see his mind was open closed  sad, but what can you do when someone has such a bias they couldn’t even give it a chance from the get go, no surprises here. Between tweets, heckling and playing with an I-pad can’t be sure what he actually heard. (for fun posted in his favourite colour)

Tony Hadchiti (@hadchiti)
5/10/11 9:50 PM
Liverpool carbon tax debate all done and dusted. No one changed their mind once they heard the argument for it.

Tony Hadchiti (@hadchiti)
5/10/11 8:47 PM
Questions from the audience. Lots of questions so little answers. It’s not a carbon tax it’s a quick grab at $$$$$

Tony Hadchiti (@hadchiti)
5/10/11 8:32 PM
Laurie Ferguson firing up now.

Tony Hadchiti (@hadchiti)
5/10/11 8:12 PM
We need Harry Jenkins here. it’s not the same hearing ORDER from anyone else!!

Tony Hadchiti (@hadchiti)
5/10/11 8:04 PM
Lucky Senator Rhiannon has Laurie Ferguson sitting next to her feeding her notes because she has absolutely no idea what’s going on here

Tony Hadchiti (@hadchiti)
5/10/11 7:48 PM
The Greens are now blamming Councils for the need to implement a Carbon Tax. What a sad bunch!!!!

Tony Hadchiti (@hadchiti)
5/10/11 7:31 PM
A lot of hot air coming from the Greens in tonight’s carbon tax debate at Liverpool



8 Responses to as promised… the day after ;-D

  1. Michael Russell says:

    It is amazing how people saw this meeting progress. Signe remarks that the affirmative team was well prepared, however I felt that they gave very flimsy answers which had nothing to do with the question.
    It was also the very first community meeting in over fifteen years that I have been attending such meetings where the Green/Labor supporters were outnumbered five to one by the none aligned members of the community. Normally te shoe is on the other foot.

    • Signe says:

      Thanks for dropping by Michael… you are right it is interesting; however the thing I noticed was the affirmative team spoke ‘locally’ whilst the Opposition generalised and stuck with rhetoric and comments designed to appease their cheer squad. Whilst I applaud their right to do so, I truly hoped the opposition would bring genuine alternatives and they were not forthcoming. Calling for elections etc may appeal to some, but this was a local council debate that will have little to no impact on the federal arena. Where as if they had brought real options and alternatives there may have been some in the room who may have considered them? 4 to 1 perhaps on counting the numbers but we had genuinely sought not to ‘stack’ the event and from what I saw Labor didn’t at all… which I guess to is unusual considering some election forums we’ve both attended. (NON Aligned is perhaps a stretch???)In the end I guess we will just disagree, I support measures that help in the reduction of pollution and most especially from those who pollute most, as a resident who knows how hard most people attempt to do the right thing in their homes surely those who stuff up biggest should be made to either clean up or pay up… and for the record… my grandson is worth $10 a week if that is the cost to me and for those who need it support will be given, which IMHO is better than the enormous subsidies being paid out of my taxes to those same big polluters.
      regards Signe

  2. Ray Van says:

    I was there too, hoping to hear something positive from our current government, to no avail. I am of the firm belief that the clean energy initiative can be funded out of our current tax regime, if only the Feds would stop wasting money on hair brain schemes poorly thought out and even more poorly delivered.
    The “Carbon Tax” is also a poor attempt at climate engineering; this tax will not change the climate one little bit. The Feds really shot themselves in the foot by alluding to this as a goal of the Carbon Tax. Now they’re saying it is to change the behaviour of the 500 top “polluting Companies” and these companies should pay until they clean up their act.
    All of them “pollute” to produce the goods and services we as consumers use. At the end of the day it’s the consumers that will pay for this tax in higher prices, don’t expect the companies to absorb this extra cost. It is an unwanted evil tax legislated with evil intent.
    The compensation offered will never be enough. Electric power, our basic necessity of modern life is being taxed a second time, we pay GST and now we are taxed again by way of an insidious “carbon tax”. I thought double taxation was against our constitution!
    When the meeting degenerated even further toward the end I walked out in disgust with the obvious belligerence towards the constituents, the heckling by the constituents and general behaviour of most everyone there.
    There was nothing new in all the rhetoric I heard from both sides of the argument.
    It did become clear however that the general mood of the public is that they don’t want the current term of government to run its course. 2013 can’t come quick enough.

    • Signe says:

      Hi Ray,

      It has always been to change the behaviour of the worst polluters; if they reduce emission’s they will reduce the tax, pure and simple. As for Evil, Ray I think perhaps you’re overstating, and clearly we will not agree, as I believe those who mess up should clean up and the affirmative MP’s went to considerable length to explain the whole process of compensation to the community and the safeguards while they do so. More importantly significant funds will go to developing cleaner greener methods of producing.

      Sadly I have to agree and advise that it deteriorated even more after you left, not necessarily the way I would have liked Liverpool depicted. Be it frustration, poor manners or what, it wasn’t good.

      Although I see your desire for another election, nothing on the night gave me hope the coalition would be any better and sadly had the potential to be even worse… before you wish us too quickly to 2013, please wish for us good government/better representation/ because if that was the best the coalition had to offer I’m even more concerned than usual. Clearly I’d seen & heard Mr Kelly before but Mr Matheson was not what I’d hoped.

  3. Ray Van says:

    Just goes to show how important it is the calibre of candidates is vetted very closely and more so the advisors that run the show behind the scenes. If this is the best Australia’s got to offer, god help us! We must appear to be a bunch of bumbling illiterate harlequins to the rest of the world. Are we taken seriously by our Asian neighbours, or the rest of the world?

    • Signe says:

      I agree, and I was pleased with the affirmative team in that they appeared to provide information and was impressed with their ability to work together, although I don’t think (actually pretty sure) they hadn’t prearranged to do so. And most importantly (at least to me) addressed what they were there for, how the tax will affect us locally, while as I’ve said before the opposition was disjointed, rhetoric based and unable to convince or really add to the debate, I truly had hoped for better.

      On the world stage however, whether you like it or not Swan just received a world class award, and having worked locally alongside Lee am more than confident of her credentials and passion while Laurie has been a surprise as previously totally unknown to me was delighted in his knowledge, if this is indicative then perhaps there is more than what we see.

      On a local level the coalition, it strikes me the Opposition needs members who were ‘with them’ longer than the month prior to the election as has been the case on one or more of their now members…or even more locally (council) those who jumped one ship to try their luck on another, which raises for me the question of loyalty and honour in representation as opposed to sheer ambition and desire.

      Alas as is oft the case, you may not agree but I appreciate your input, regards

  4. Ray Van says:

    My view is probable skewed to yours as yours is to mine. This however does not make us “enemies’, rather journeymen on this planet of ours
    Swan’s award was a default, the best out of a bad bunch. I say this because of the reversal of fortunes for Australia’s future fund, it is now non existent, in fact 50 billion+ dollars in reverse as we are dragged ever further into debt by this present day government, in spite of windfall after windfall with opportunities wasted. They are “borrowing” against our childrens’ futures.
    The “in comparison to other countries” is not good enough an argument to sell us all down the river, their fiscal policy is out of control as they borrow more and more, thinking the carbon tax will fix everything. Well it won’t, what it will do is hurt every Australian’s standard of living just so Gillard and Rudd can strut the world stage and Brown can smirk all the way to his eutopia of his “climate tax” heaven. For 10% – 15 % of the population to coerce our country into unwanted policy is hardly democratic.
    Like I said, bring on the elction in 2013 or sooner, what may be cannot be worse then what we have now, it can only be better!

    • Signe says:

      While I again disagree it is your right to hold what ever opinion you choose…we will not agree on the tax/need/10-15% etc etc…and i think we gather our facts from entirely different sources….but you are right, we aren’t enemies.

      have a good day

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